Rodent Wars Forum

More almost-good fighting on Mustafar.

• The distance is actually about right. Still too close, but not by too much.
• The footwork is not terrible. They stay balanced and steady. However, it could totally be better, with stronger strides and passing steps.
• Several of Anakin's blows aren't aimed at Obi-Wan at all, but at his saber.
• The parries are pretty well done. I like them a lot. The exception is when Obi-Wan does a spin and parries behind his back. That's atrocious.
• And yeah, that spin is bad, bad. I've seen worse, but it would be suicide in a real fight. The other one is doable, though not a good idea.
• Anakin Skywalker, the legendary warrior, doesn't kill his enemy when he spins.

Rating: 6/10

Because it's shield combat (only slow strikes go through a Dune energy shield) it's supposed to be different, and it is. There's more feinting, the real attacks are slow, and you can afford to take a hit because of the shield.

I asked a friend who makes knives and does some martial arts, and he says it's pretty good. The moves look a lot like silat, an Indonesian knife martial art where you block primarily by striking at their arm. It's also like kali (also known as escrima) a Philippine martial art based around stickfighting.

In kali, there are ten basic strikes, which you can learn about here. I've watched the gif frame by frame. In the first fighting shot of the gif, Gurney attacks with Strike 1, and Paul blocks with his forearm. Gurney uses Strike 2, and Paul either parries or does a Strike 1 with his right knife. Paul then replies with a Strike 2, throwing Gurney's arm aside.
     In the next shot, Gurney is swinging downward in Strike 9. Paul blocks with his left hand and throws Gurney off balance, then drops down and winds up for a Strike 4 as Gurney comes down with another Strike 2. Both strikes land, but are stopped by the shields.

Gurney's footwork doesn't look great, but Paul's is good from what I can see (it's the movement advantage that allows him to make that knee strike). Really, I'd say that's great closing skill. I've recreated that move in sparring with friends, and I think that it would only work if you close, throw the enemy off balance (like Paul does) and then dropped down to strike. That aiming for the leg instead of the side is a bad idea is probably not true, because your opponent is striking at you and will expect you to stay high. So whether the move is a good idea depends on the context, which the trailer doesn't show. Gurney probably should've be ready for something like it, but since we don't have the whole fight I can't say whether Paul made a foolish rush or a brilliantly timed one.

The swords/knives they're using are called kindjals. Unlike the book, they're straight-bladed and single-edged. It's similar to the Japanese sword called the Dao. Here's some dao sparring:

It's quite similar to Dune.


Overall, I'd say Dune seems very accurate thus far.
Rating: 8/10

EDIT: Copied this to the new Knife Fighting thread as well.

(With the director's commentary.)

So we now have the whole fight, and it's glorious. It totally showcases real-life martial arts, along with subtle differences because of the shields.

Again, the fight uses a lot of kali/arnis/eskrima, and Gurney also seems to be familiar with German messer. The first section really showcases the style of Balintawak Eskrima (yes, I pasted that name). Here's a grandmaster of that style in action:


In all kali, the off hand (hand without a weapon) is used to block and deflect the attacks of the enemy. In Balintawak Eskrima, this is dialed up to 11. The left hand is a flurry of motion, being the primary defensive tool. The idea is the push the enemy's arm aside as they strike so you can use your own weapon.

Anyway, on to the breakdown!

Gurney is powerful, aggressive, and brutal. His footwork is solid, planted and concrete. Gurney's feints (false strikes) consist of power strikes, and his strategy consists of trying to overwhelm and overpower Paul before landing slow hits designed to penetrate the shield.
Paul is graceful and agile. His footwork uses a lot of sidesteps, true to the foundations of kali.
Gurney and Paul are both using short swords like the Dao. When I said in an earlier post that they were kindjals I was wrong. Actually, Gurney's might be one.

The fight starts with some excellent close combat that's really a treat to watch, with excellent flow, technique, and speed, though it's a bit too clean and idealized. Gurney twirls his sword and the two attack. Paul attacks with a thrust—Gurney avoids and strikes the back of Paul's body shield. Gurney attacks again. Paul blocks and counters. After several exchanges Paul gets to the side of Gurney and strikes his trainer's knee shield with the hilt of his own sword as Gurney lands a similar hit to his head shield. Paul jumps back up and  attempts to throw Gurney off balance, but Gurney moves in too fast for that and passes his sword through the shield, pressing it to Paul's neck.

Then Gurney charges again. First off, Gurney attacks with strike #10 (straight thrust at the chest). Paul sidesteps, but before he can riposte, Gurney comes back with strike #4, a horizontal swing from the left. Paul is surprised and barely manages to block. Then Gurney twists his sword around Paul's in a messer-like technique and disarms him with a quick movement before sweeping at him with a slow strike #4. Paul voids and leaps over the table before grabbing a couple of daggers from the top.

Gurney swings down with a #1. Paul dodges and lands a hit on his trainer's arm, which is stopped by the shield. Gurney recovers with a #4 while drawing Paul's attention to his off hand, which Paul lands a hit on. Paul dodges Gurney's strike before the latter attacks with another #1. Paul blocks with his forearm and appears to try a #7 strike, a high thrust on the right. Gurney intercepts it with a #2, but Paul intercepts his counterattack with another #2 with his left knife, shoving Gurney's arm aside. However, he doesn't take advantage of the opening in time before Gurney brings his arm back with a #4 and then uses a powerful #10 to knock Paul down.

Paul switches grips. The advantage of the reverse grip is that he can easily deflect enemy strikes with either hand. Gurney closes and strikes with another #1. Paul deflects his arm with his left hand (amazing technique there) and then rushes in to land a hit on Gurney's knee, which looks to be just fast enough to be stopped by the latter's shield.

Gurney falls back and Paul presses his attack. He lands a double #5 strike with both hands, then brings his right hand back in another #5 very quickly. These strikes are aimed at Gurney's face and so they temporarily blind him with the shield flashes. Gurney switches his sword to his left hand as Paul spins (a very realistic spin), catches Gurney's strike with his right hand, and trips his trainer up with a hook-type #3 behind the knee. Gurney falls to the floor and Paul brings his knives to the former's throat. Gurney says, "You'd have joined me in death," as Paul realizes that Gurney's sword is through the shield and pointed at his heart.

Only problems: When Paul deflects Gurney's arm, it goes way too far (as if Paul were superhumanly strong). Gurney doesn't do much in the last few seconds, seeming to want to get hit—though he does move a bit, it's not enough.

Overall, though, I'd say this is a masterpiece. The characters are fast, skilled, not overly flashy, etc, even if some movements are exaggerated. It also reflects the difference of shield-combat. 8/10.

EDIT: Copied this to the Knife fighting thread as well.

This is another amazing fight from Dune. While some of the movements are exaggerated, and the Sardaukar seem to lack an understanding of distance, it's fast, smooth, and uses a lot of realistic technique.

Problems:

• Some of the Sardaukar are telegraphing their strikes. That means they let Duncan know, through their body motions, what they will do next.
• A couple times when Duncan slashes, his sword appears to be going too fast to penetrate a shield. Yes, it's a slash, which means that the pulling motion is what's gonna be important, but it's still a little quick.
• When Idaho hits one of the guys with an upward strike, that Sardaukar just falls back, recovers and hits Duncan's shield, and then comes around with a wide strike, leaving his torso open for a strike by Duncan.

Things I really enjoy in this fight include the distance-management by Duncan, the flanking attacks by the Sardaukar, and the brief moments of grappling.
And, of course, the fact that when a Sardaukar makes a mistake, Duncan exploits it. That sums up so much of martial arts, and really set this fight apart from, say, Star Wars.

One more thing: I love that after Duncan gets stabbed, he slows down a lot, because he's now tired and bleeding heavily. Then the Sardaukar don't just send a guy to try to kill him while they cut through the door, but instead tactically surround him and hack him apart.

Rating: 7.5/10—Duncan is very skilled but uses exaggerated motions and doesn't guard his area perfectly, and the Sardaukar seem very efficient except in distance management.

This is a very good fight. There's a double-hit and a spin, but everything flows nicely and, at least in this part, nothing is ridiculous. Even the spin is used aggressively, and it's great to see this much thought put into a fight scene.

7/10